Facebook Communism 101 Transcript
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[VA]: November 5 at 4:09pm
I feel as though this is an extremely important read for everyone in this group. Leftist groups and revolutionary organizations in the recent past have had many issues with abusers and rapists being part of their groups with no action by leadership either locally or nationally. In some of those cases, when people tried to speak out, they were silenced by these groups and deliberately maligned. I feel this is necessary to post now because what’s outlined in this article is starting to become very personal for me as I am speaking out about a rapist and abuser in a well-known revolutionary group (Freedom Road Socialist Organization: Fight Back) and they are participating in many of the same actions in order to isolate, ostracize, and otherwise discredit me and my comrades who are similarly speaking out. I’ve been told this organization is dealing with the problem, investigating it - all while I’m also being unfriended and blocked by members and removed from the social media sites of Students for a Democratic Society, an organization I have been a part of for probably about two years, which FRSO has significant if not total control over. It is absolutely unacceptable for any revolutionary organization serious about women’s emancipation to behave in this fashion.
If a leftist organization is serious about women’s emancipation, they must expel rapists and abusers, not protect them.
If a leftist organization is serious about fighting patriarchy rather than adding it as a footnote or simply considering it a nice idea, they must take seriously any claims about rapists and abusers in their organization rather than ostracizing people who bring this to their attention.
If a leftist organization is serious about being safe spaces for victims of rape and abuse, which they must be if they are serious about women’s liberation, they must not stay silent when they see other organizations behaving in ways which are counter-revolutionary and ultimately misogynistic.
Everyone needs to know the signs of a cover-up of rape and abuse in leftist circles. The abuse is not new, but increased instances of people speaking out about it seem to be. Those people deserve to be encouraged rather than discarded if the left has a chance at all of achieving justice for women rather than simply providing women lip- service to continue to benefit from the organizing and activist work we do.
I think it’s essential to name the organization doing this, so that hopefully members of this Facebook group who are members of that organization might be able to bring it up to their local leadership or otherwise take action on it, and so that women members of this Facebook page can be aware that this is how this organization is currently functioning and know to steer clear.
16 people like this.
November 5 at 4:15pm - Edited - Like
[Tampa SDS Member]: I am one of the comrades affected by this situation with FRSO, and have also essentially been kicked out of my SDS chapter. If anyone has any advice or ideas about how to go forward I’d love to hear it. November 5 at 4:28pm - Like - 2
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: A year and a half ago, Tampa SDS was near the forefront of activism here (the rapist we are talking about has since moved to another city to start a FRSO unit here) and leading an anti-Rape Culture campaign. Now its a joke and they’ve ostracized most of the people who built up the ant rape culture campaign, in large part because of this rapists machinations. Tampa FRSO also protects “mass activists” who have been kicked out of other scenes for being sexual predators. November 5 at 5:03pm - Edited - Like - 5
[VA]: Additionally I find it pertinent to point out here that the abuser in FRSO that the complaints have been made about is still in all of the Students for a Democratic Society social media pages that I have been both removed and blocked from. November 5 at 5:17pm - Like - 2
Daniel Sullivan: What’s primary here is the possibility that an FRSO person has committed a sexual assault. We take gendered violence and especially sexual assault very seriously. We’ve expelled people for gendered violence before. In this case there were a lot of accusations or complaints against FRSO coming from the same source or sources, and it was a bit difficult to sort them all out. It became clear that we were dealing with an accusation that one of our members had committed a sexual assault I think a week ago Friday or something. The very next day, we reached out to the victim to try to find out what had happened. Unfortunately, so far we haven’t been able to communicate with her. So, that makes things very difficult. It would be very helpful if she would communicate with us so that we can take care of this. We have acted quickly, and we’ve acted quickly despite that many of us are very busy with the Rasmea Odeh that that is going on now and that could see a long time Palestinian activist sent to prison and at the least deported.
Those are the basic facts. I can add that these problems are extremely common in the wider society and as a result they are naturally pretty common in our movement and that any but the smallest organizations has had to deal with them probably more than once. In my experience we take an aggressive stand. That’s what we should do. The wider community also has a role to play and that is to cooperate and put aside whatever other differences to resolve this matter.
There are a lot of other complaints about FRSO that [VA] has stated here, on her status, and in PMs to me. All of them are far less serious than this one, and I’m not going to respond systematically to them. I have no interest in a sectarian shit storm. I am going to say though that I really don’t appreciate [VA] telling me that one of our young Latina activists in Florida needs to be punished for speaking rudely to [VA]. If FRSO punished a young Latina activist for yelling back at [VA], I would quit FRSO. November 5 at 9:42pm - Like - 3
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: Daniel’s post is dishonest, disgusting rape apologism. There is a lot wrong with it but I want to specifically call out and condemn the last paragraph where Daniel tries to imply [VA] is being racist for standing up to victim blaming. I wasn’t at that meeting, but I know for certain that your “young Latina activist” engaged in extreme, harmful victim blaming (so much for FRSO never being in contact with the victim, liar), told the blatant lie that the rapist was no longer in FRSO, among other things. Whether or not this woman should be ostracized from activism (I certainly hope never to interact with her ever again), [VA] absolutely has a right to bring up criticisms of her atrocious behavior and Daniel needs to be criticized for implying she (or anyone) doesn’t. November 5 at 9:59pm - Like - 2
[VA]: “Speaking rudely to me”? Because I’m pretty sure what I told you, Daniel, was that she blatantly lied and victim blamed who I can only imagine is the same person you’re now “trying to reach out to”. Great outreach there, Daniel. November 5 at 9:58pm - Like - 4
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: is not just a possibility that a FRSO cadre has committed an assault. He has admitted committing assaults, and had rules put on him, which he’s basically admitted to breaking. [Links to the Dustin Ponder Sanctions Email Exchange]
There are other assaults he’s been accused of, but Daniel or FRSO don’t have the slightest basis for doubting that these claims are true (even if they only know about them in the abstract) or for not cooperating with the “source or sources” and only being willing to talk about it in their terms (i.e. small personal meetings arranged with the person they want to arrange them with rather than they people raising these claims and going out of their way to get a response). November 5 at 9:59pm - Like - 2
[VA]: Also I’m curious as to how isolating and removing people from groups without any kind of process whatsoever for speaking out about these things are “far less serious” because from here they smell like a disgusting coverup of counter-revolutionary behavior. November 5 at 10:00pm - Like - 1
[Facebook User A]: I’m not involved but Daniel Sullivan that post seems very defective like I don’t think dropping the campaign is what anyone wants but if it’s such a large work load couldn’t the person accused of the assault be temporarily suspended during the campaign until there’s enough time for a trial/investigation? November 5 at 10:01pm - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: Daniel doesn’t address at all the extreme active hostility (not to mention maddening silent treatment) FRSO cadre have shown to the people who are raising this issue. That’s a pretty damn important issue. His attempt to seem all technocratic and interested in facts and process is just a smokescreen that has no connection to the reality of the issue, and you can see a lot of parallels between it and the tactics mentioned in the article in the OP. November 5 at 10:03pm - Like - 2
[VA]: “The very next day, we reached out to the victim to try to find out what had happened. Unfortunately, so far we haven’t been able to communicate with her. So, that makes things very difficult. It would be very helpful if she would communicate with us so that we can take care of this.” I can’t imagine why she wouldn’t want to communicate with an organization that not only is harboring her abuser but has actively shunned anyone trying to raise awareness of his presence. Gosh, clearly the victim is the problem here. November 5 at 10:10pm - Like - 10
[Tampa SDS Member]: It’s not the victim’s job to constantly communicate their trauma, especially to an organization they would have legitimate grievances with. November 5 at 10:16pm - Like - 6
[VA]: Yeah, communicating issues of trauma with the organization in question almost seems like it would be a victim advocate’s job. Oh, and you know what’s funny? The victim in this instance requested that all correspondence happen through a victim advocate and so far FRSO members have not contacted that person! November 5 at 10:20pm - Like - 9
Adele Cain: Who is this “victim advocate” and who in FRSO has been given details of this advocate to discuss the details with? I’m obviously not based in the US but I’m struggling to understand how the FRSO process has been inappropriate if Daniel’s response is an accurate representation of their reaction so far. November 6 at 1:59am - Like - 1
[VA]: I mean, FRSO members were approached about general concerns regarding this abuser and another one not in the org but who attended one of their events and those FRSO members were absolutely “silent” and refused to respond to anyone asking about either topic. No outreach there. When those initial concerns came up, there was no outreach to the victim or ANYone. Naw, FRSO only “reached out” to the victim AFTER one of their members victim blamed her. So maybe one of the folks in this thread desperate to examine and scrutinize the methods of the victim and others concerned about this issue can explain to me why it took months for “outreach” to take place, especially when I’m 99% sure the people conducting this “outreach” were already aware of what happened and had been for quite some time. Or maybe, Adele, you can explain to me why it’s appropriate for FRSO members to block and unfriend me for bringing this up. Maybe you can explain to me why it’s appropriate that FRSO members have made it so that this abuser is still in the facebook pages for SDS but I’ve been removed. It’s not like members don’t know who the charges have been laid against. Did you skip over that part of the thread or is your unwillingness to deal with that detail just a way to indicate that you don’t believe that’s happened? Is it revolutionary to consider charges that a rapist and abuser is in your group to just be a petty sectarian attack (like it seems Daniel is willing to imply) rather than a serious charge that needs to be examined? Maybe you can explain to me the appropriateness of that reaction after you’ve explained why it’s appropriate for FRSO members to not respond to inquiries about this “at all” for “months”. Go ahead. I’d really love to know. November 6 at 5:26am - Edited - Like - 4
[VA]: Also it was a really nice touch to put victim advocate in quotes as if that’s not a real thing that a victim should want to request during a situation like this. But full disclosure, that person is me. I also don’t know why you need to know who has been given the details. It’s the same FRSO member who messaged the victim in the first place. Idk why that changes anything. November 6 at 5:22am - Edited - Like - 5
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: “Who is this ‘Victim advocate’ and who in FRSO has been given details of this advocate to discuss the details with? I’m obviously not based in the US but I’m struggling to understand how the FRSO process has been inappropriate if Daniel’s response is an accurate representation of their reaction so far.” — uh, why does a post like this get made in a thread where a bunch of people just said that Daniel’s response is a totally inaccurate representation of what’s happened? November 6 at 8:54am - Edited - Like - 9
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: And why is a post saying “FRSO was told to communicate through a victim advocate and they haven’t” something that you need more information in order to scrutinize, and not a pretty simple concrete statement you can just believe? November 6 at 6:23am - Like - 8
Adele Cain: My comment was perfectly reasonable. And there is nothing suspect in putting someone’s role in “”. Communists scrutinising? Why can’t they “just believe”. Some of us are interested in the truth, that’s why. You want to use this forum to campaign against a party, you can make a better account of yourselves. No-one knows yet the details of the sexual assault, make sure there are no obstructions to the investigations if you want it investigated. I don’t see how any reasonable person could be satisfied with your (collective) conduct, in this thread alone. Let alone what we hear from Dan of your targeting a woman of colour. November 6 at 9:28am - Like - 1
[VA]: Targeting? She happened to show up to a meeting and victim blame someone. You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. November 6 at 10:06am - Like - 3
[VA]: I mean you all do realize I posted this article as an example of what “not” to do, right? November 6 at 10:06am - Like
[VA]: Also I still need answers as to why my conduct in this thread is somehow worse than assaulting multiple women. Any fucking time Adele. November 6 at 10:08am - Like - 2
[VA]: “Make sure there are no obstructions to the investigation” what the hell do you think this is? The only people obstructing an investigation are FRSO members who refuse to discuss this with anyone. I’ve asked multiple people who to talk to, where to get answers only to be ignored. But I’m the one “obstructing” investigating? Outrageous. Absolutely ridiculous. November 6 at 10:13am - Edited - Like - 4
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: Adele- Your comments are unconscionable and blatantly disingenuous. They’re also totally ignoring what has been said in this thread. In no circumstances is it the right practice (or anything close) to demand that the “details of the sexual assault” be known before taking action, but this is a case where people who have been painstakingly trying to get any response from FRSO have been met with hostility, victim blaming, and aggressive isolation tactics rather than any sincere attempt to “learn facts.” [VA] is totally right that the only people obstructing anything are FRSO. November 6 at 10:13am - Like - 2
Adele Cain: I did not rank your behaviour as worse than assault. I expect FRSO to investigate and expel abusers of women. But, despite your campaign, it is unclear to me why you are so certain they are unwilling to do so. November 6 at 10:24am - Like - 1
[VA]: So giving people asking about the silent treatment, expelling them from organizations, and now lying and being disingenuous about what’s occurred hasn’t given you any indication whatsoever? November 6 at 10:25am - Like - 1
[VA]: And I made the comment about you ranking my behavior as worse because you’ve had plenty to say about my conduct but have not yet addressed the fact that the abuser in question is still in the groups I’ve been kicked out of. Would you like to address how that gives you confidence in FRSO’s ability and willingness to fairly investigate this issue? I think that’s something you should elaborate on. November 6 at 10:27am · Like · 3
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: What’s not clear? I used to be in FRSO and the organization refused to enforce the rules it had put on the rapist Dustin Ponder, supposedly on pain of expulsion. Now, they are putting many times more effort into silencing and lying to the people trying to hold Dustin accountable than they are into trying to “investigate.” Hell, its not even a matter of putting no effort into investigating, because with the level of dishonesty exhibited in stuff like Daniel Sullivan’s post, they are clearly trying to obfuscate and actively make it difficult for people to “investigate.” November 6 at 10:31am · Like · 3
Adele Cain: I’m satisfied with Dan’s statement at this time. I expect thinking Comrades to be too. You want to accuse Dan of dishonesty now! You can’t back that up either. And I really do suggest you start saying things you can back up, if you want us to host such a thread. I will also point out that Dan is an admin here, that’s how much of a silencing coverup this is. He is hosting these concerns about his own party. November 6 at 10:56am · Like · 1
[VA]: How magnanimous of him November 6 at 10:57am · Like · 1
[VA]: To host a thread in which he dishonestly says that I was trying to punish a woman of color for speaking rudely to me as a means of discrediting the people making these claims about his party. Sure Adele. Whatever. November 6 at 10:58am · Like · 1
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: “And I really do suggest you start saying things you can back up, if you want us to host such a thread.” Threatening to further silence us. Wow. November 6 at 11:08am · Like · 2
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: The logic of Adele’s posts is pretty horrifying. You can only say Dan’s statement is satisfying if your premise is that when people are talking about sexual assault, one should be orders of magnitude more suspicious and doubtful of their statements than if they’re talking about anything else.
I mean, half of the response to his statement has been about how he omitted any discussion of the hostility and silencing FRSO has been engaging in. Dan hasn’t even responded to this with a denial! So even though its not actually being disputed, you still want us to back it up more!
As for the errors and lies of commission in Dan’s post, lets start with him saying there is a “possibility” that someone in FRSO committed assault. I actually linked to emails that show FRSO has put rules on Dustin for past assaults (not that this has been denied).
The other big falsehood in his post is that they’ve been trying to contact the victim. We pointed out that FRSO sure had enough contact with the victim to victim blame her to her face very recently at a political meeting and that they have not tried contacting the designated victim’s advocate. No one has come in to deny this. Why do we need to “back it up” more? November 6 at 11:28am - Edited - Like - 8
Adele Cain: I think it is clear I have not attempted to silence you because we have tolerated this thread so far. And this thread will be closed rather than deleted ultimately. I agree that Dan should condemn the victim blaming comments and I hope that the woman who made them will be asked to self criticise but the most important thing to me personally is that the abuser is dealt with. And I hope the victim will in whatever way she is able help that process. This is my position. But if you continue to call Dan dishonest you will be removed from this setting and you can claim we silenced you but this is a group frequented by thousands of Communists who can read this thread and see that quite the opposite has occurred. November 6 at 11:45am - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: “I think it is clear I have not attempted to silence you because we have tolerated this thread so far” November 6 at 11:49am - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: “But if you continue to call Dan dishonest you will be removed from this setting and you can claim we silenced you but this is a group frequented by thousands of Communists who can read this thread and see that quite the opposite has occurred.” November 6 at 11:49am - Like
[VA]: Again I find it troubling that entertaining notions that an abuser is in a group and the group is covering it up is mere tolerance rather than legitimate concern. November 6 at 11:50am - Like - 3
[Facebook User A]: This isn’t reflecting well on FRSO-FB at all, like, if [VA] came out as the advocate, then shouldn’t there be some attempt to reach out and bridge the whole situation? like maybe for starters linking her to who she can talk to, if not unblocking her from the groups? November 6 at 11:53am - Like - 10
Adele Cain: Are you aware that you have made comments on this thread that we have published and intend to continue to host. This is not silence. We did not delete all of your statements and publish only Dan’s response. It is really a simple and observable reality that we have not silenced you. We have published your complaint. November 6 at 11:53am - Like - 1
[VA]: The only problem with that description of what’s happened in this thread, Adele, is that you’ve published the complaints, yes, but now are threatening to close the thread if we have the audacity to dispute the honesty of Daniels claims, essentially tying our hands to actually say anything that might need to be said. November 6 at 12:13pm - Like - 3
[Facebook User B]: There should be an investigation, and the FRSO member accused of sexual assault should most likely be kicked out. I think though, that calling for a Latina comrade to be expelled from an org in which she does incredibly needed mass work (esp. for the Chicano community) is absolutely ridiculous. There is zero reason to take your word over hers at this point, and there better be more proof than your insistence on this FB thread that she victim blamed someone, if you want her “expelled”. November 6 at 1:09pm - Edited - Like - 3
[VA]: I never said I wanted her expelled actually November 6 at 1:09pm - Like - 3
[VA]: And I mean the only other proof I can offer is that others overheard it and can testify to that fact. These were spoken words and I wasn’t exactly recording. November 6 at 1:10pm - Edited - Like - 1
[Facebook User B]: Oh, I must’ve misunderstood then. (I’m not a member of FRSO btw, just to clarify.) I still think there should be proof if you want to accuse her of that, because the accusation itself is damaging. November 6 at 1:12pm - Edited - Like
[VA]: [Tampa SDS Member] also witnessed the victim blaming. She was the only other non-FRSO member (aside from the victim who should not be expected to out herself to prove this claim) to witness this, and I absolutely don’t expect any of the FRSO members present to be honest about what they witnessed. November 6 at 1:13pm - Like - 1
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: Wait, is she denying that she publically engaged in victim blaming and lied about Dustin still being in the group or did you just arbitrarily decide that this is the sort of statement that deserves way more scrutiny than any other statement people make about things that have happened? I haven’t called for her to be expelled either, but to say that because someone is a Latina doing incredibly needed mass work that this should make them “off limits” for expulsion for victim blaming is absurd. November 6 at 1:13pm - Like
Tampa Activist: I don’t know where this distortion originated, but not once has [VA] asked for her to be expelled or punished. So, this should be dropped. November 6 at 1:18pm - Like - 1
[Tampa SDS Member]: Yes, I was also there. I don’t know if this is something tangible we can offer you since again, this was said out loud and nothing was recorded. I’ve met this comrade in person plenty of times and thought highly of her until this incident, so I don’t want it to appear that I’m singling her out either. I’m angry at multiple FRSO members for what’s been happening, not just her. November 6 at 1:18pm - Like - 1
[VA]: I mean I do think that there should be some accountability for her victim blaming. I would hope any communist would. November 6 at 1:18pm - Like - 2
[Facebook User B]: I’m not saying there shouldn’t be, I’m saying there better be more proof than what’s been shown in this thread… which is not much at all. And the point about her value to the community was not to say she’s “off limits” (wtf?) but as a demonstration of her character – since a few of us know her (or of her, in my case). November 6 at 1:21pm - Like
[VA]: Ok but literally what proof can be acquired for a spoken statement other than people saying what they heard? November 6 at 1:21pm - Like - 2
[VA]: I mean honestly the most hideous part about it was that it was done to the victim’s face. November 6 at 1:22pm - Like
[Facebook User B]: Which people am I supposed to believe? You, [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre] and [Tampa SDS Member]? Over her? Okay, maybe–but why? Nobody else knows what exactly was said nor have you explained how she was victim blaming. November 6 at 1:25pm - Edited - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: Did she actually deny it? It’s interesting that two Sullivan associates come into this thread and focus on a red herring that, as far as I can tell, is totally manufactured by Daniel Sullivan. November 6 at 1:25pm - Like - 1
[VA]: She repeatedly asked the victim why she was with the abuser in the first place and why she stayed for so long. It was textbook. But hey I guess you just don’t believe anyone who speaks against her so I don’t even know why I’m telling you this. November 6 at 1:25pm - Like - 1
[Facebook User B]: I take accusations against comrades like her seriously, and want to ascertain the truth. Shocker right? November 6 at 1:26pm - Like
Facebook User C: Has she denied it? November 6 at 1:27pm - Like - 1
[VA]: And yes, ascertain the truth by saying that if people can’t produce “proof” of something that was spoken, they’re apparently not to be believed. Whatever. November 6 at 1:27pm - Like - 3
[VA]: I mean hey, victims of sexual assault usually don’t have proof of their claims either. You gonna “ascertain the truth” in that case too, [Facebook User B]? I’m really curious. November 6 at 1:28pm - Like - 2
[Facebook User B]: I’m sure her account would not be that she went to this meeting to victim blame someone. November 6 at 1:29pm - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: “Okay, maybe–but why?” If she is actually denying it, in addition to there being more witnesses saying they saw it, the likelihood that it will be difficult for the multiple FRSO cadre there to maintain a lie without cracking, I guess you could consult all standard feminist practice on how to accord trust in sexual violence and assault situations? Like FRSO cadre and apologists have been doing the opposite of throughout this thread? November 6 at 1:29pm - Like - 2
[Facebook User B]: The Latina comrade is not the one accused of sexual assault, don’t put words in my mouth. November 6 at 1:29pm - Like
[VA]: No one said she went to this meeting just to victim blame someone, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t do just that. So what is your point, [Facebook User B]? November 6 at 1:30pm - Like - 2
[Facebook User A]: I think focusing on the member who did the victim blaming is distracting from the assault, and that’s what should be dealt with first.
As to the punishment for the victim-blaming person, I think at the very least an apology and recognition that it was reactionary behavior.
Again though, since [VA] had come forward as the advocate, then FRSO should communicate with her instead of ignoring her. November 6 at 1:30pm - Like - 3
[VA]: I’m just pointing out the helpfulness of your logic, [Facebook User B]. November 6 at 1:30pm - Like
Tampa Activist: Was she supposed to record this? I don’t know any group who would appreciate their meetings being recorded outside of meeting minutes. Was she supposed to know this other person was going to say something like this? November 6 at 1:30pm - Like - 3
Facebook User C: “During investigations by an organization in the US into incidents of anti-women violence and abuse, the word of the victim alleging that violence and abuse has been committed against them must be given more weight than the word of the accused. If there is a factual dispute, the guiding principle must be to adopt policies and enact decisions based principally on the victim’s account of events. Victims of domestic violence often have their reality denied or manipulated consistently by their abusers.
This must be taken into account when investigating the facts and when coming to a decision about the accused. The revolutionary organization in the US, which is not a court of justice with a court’s material powers of investigation and presumptions, cannot allow the accused to simply deny the victim’s account in part or wholesale, call into question the victim’s motives, and mobilize their social network to pressure the victim and the organization.
Revolutionary organizations in the US are not states making decisions on punishment and rehabilitation, which would operate according to different standards. They are voluntary associations that must make a call – generally based on limited and conflicting verbal or written accounts – on how to respond to an incident, taking into consideration the need to advance the struggle for women’s emancipation, to develop women as militants and leaders, and to protect the organization’s work and reputation.”*
http://www.signalfire.org/…/on-standards-of-feminist…/ November 6 at 1:31pm - Like - 9
[Facebook User B]: My point is if her account is different from yours, I have no reason to believe you over her. Or necessarily vice versa, other than the fact that I know of this comrade and she is a stand-up individual who does valuable work for the community. November 6 at 1:31pm - Like - 1
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: [Facebook User B] - why are you incapable of straightforwardly answering the question of whether she denied it or whether you just decided that, because the claim was about victim blaming, it should be scrutinized and doubted? November 6 at 1:32pm - Like
[Facebook User B]: Sullivan associates, lol. What kind of bullshit is that? So the woman and poc dude are just dumb puppets of the white guy–not like we know of the Latina comrade in question and are trying to figure this out ourselves. Fuck you, [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]. November 6 at 1:32pm - Like
[Tampa SDS Member]: I understand your frustration because no one likes to hear something like this about a comrade they thought highly of, especially by people you don’t know personally—again, I thought highly of her too and still consider the work she does to be very important. But we have no reason to lie about this (what would we possibly gain from this). November 6 at 1:32pm - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: You say her account is different from ours but don’t know the details of the victim blaming we are accusing her of?
edit: oh, didn’t see the “if” November 6 at 1:34pm - Edited - Like
Facebook User C: There wasn’t much engagement with [VA]’s post sharing the above article. Do [Facebook User B], Dan, or Adele want to submit an alternative set of guidelines? November 6 at 1:32pm - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: I’m saying that because you haven’t given a straight answer of whether the Latina “comrade” has denied what we are saying. Fuck you, rape apologist. November 6 at 1:33pm - Edited - Like
[VA]: I mean idk there is actual proof that this same activist didn’t see fit to respond to concerns about this abuser in FRSO at all. But I guess ignoring these concerns is… ok… somehow? November 6 at 1:36pm - Like
Facebook User E: This is horrifying. I know nothing of the situation within this organisation, but here is my take away from this thread:
An organisation’s crap dealing with an act of sexual violence has now led to women being pitted against each other. A Latina comrade, who as I am unaware even knows about this thread, was used by a man to imply that [VA] Delilah was racist, and [VA] is now being accused of attacking the Latina comrade by another man.
This is how men gain power within organisations. They defend their bros and start a squabble, then the white knights arrive. November 6 at 1:42pm - Like
[Tampa SDS Member]: [VA]’s comment is in reference to me. I had gone to several reading groups of FRSO’s before I found out about all this and was considering joining because I knew so many people in it. I was highly disturbed and upset once I found out about a rapist was being harbored in the group and contacted this comrade asking about it. She never answered me back about it, and I decided to not follow up on any more reading sessions. Which was irritating, but I had other people to try and get in contact with, so I pursued them instead and let that go, which I regret. November 6 at 1:43pm - Like
Adele Cain: Well, [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]. We have a zero tolerance policy on misogyny and racism. And reducing women and poc’s to a white guy’s associates is something we always take seriously in this group. I won’t deny the relief it gives me in this instance to remove your particularly creepy, wrecking person from our community. November 6 at 1:48pm - Like
[Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]: Are you serious? November 6 at 1:49pm - Like - 6
Facebook User C: Is [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre] being banned? If so, is it temporary or permanent? November 6 at 1:52pm - Like
[VA]: A zero tolerance policy on misogyny? Oh haha oh ok haha. November 6 at 1:53pm - Like - 4
Facebook User E: Wtf is actually going on here? November 6 at 1:54pm - Like
[VA]: Where was Daniel taken to task for his blaming the victim for the inability of this investigation FRSO is supposedly conducting to proceed? November 6 at 1:54pm - Like
José Sillos: [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre] had to go. November 6 at 1:54pm - Like - 1
November 6 at 1:55pm - Like
Adele Cain: I trust that the capable women in this thread will be ample representation for the points in question. November 6 at 1:56pm - Like
Adele Cain: Dan did not suggest the investigation will not proceed without the cooperation of the victim. He said quite the opposite, no? November 6 at 1:58pm - Like - 1
[VA]: The implication that the victim is the one gumming things up was extremely clear. November 6 at 1:59pm - Edited - Like
[VA]: I believe I pointed that out actually. November 6 at 2:01pm - Like
[Facebook User A]: Ok Adele the victim’s advocate has already come forward so the investigation can begin. November 6 at 2:03pm - Like - 1
[VA]: The investigation had supposedly already begun. It just excluded the voices of nearly everyone making claims against FRSO. November 6 at 2:04pm - Like - 2
Adele Cain: My reason for [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre] being removed was given. It’s a common tactic to cast a white man’s defenders as puppets when they are from marginalized groups. November 6 at 2:05pm - Like
[VA]: That’s fine. The only thing I take issue with is this idea that there’s a zero tolerance policy for misogyny in this group, but that’s not what this thread is about. This thread is about FRSO harboring abusers and punishing people for speaking out about it. November 6 at 2:07pm - Like - 2
Tampa Activist: I’m a Latino saying that there’s no excuse for an educated and experienced Marxist-Leninist to defend a rapist. Furthermore please stop making this about HER and make it about the rapist. This is a clear effort to distract from this issue. November 6 at 2:08pm - Like - 6
Adele Cain: I’m not in FRSO. I’m not even based in the US. But I can totally understand if FRSO are reluctant to deal with [VA] after all this. Nevertheless, I hope whatever is necessary to complete this investigation happens and if it isn’t necessary for the victim or advocate to have further roles, and the perpetrator is expelled, I will consider the matter dealt with. November 6 at 2:11pm - Like - 1
[VA]: Yeah why would a Marxist organization want to deal with a woman who won’t shut up on command amirite. November 6 at 2:12pm - Like - 4
Facebook User C: I’m going to need to know why [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]’s offense was bannable and my offense some months ago of mistakenly using cisnormative vocabulary wasn’t. Or why the guy who said same-sex marriage is disgusting got to stay and “be educated” but not [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre]. November 6 at 2:12pm - Like - 5
[Facebook User D]: This thread is pretty disturbing not gonna lie. November 6 at 2:15pm - Like - 6
Adele Cain: The woman at the meeting has not given the same account of events and is not here to refute allegations of defending rapists. So I think we should put that question to one side. November 6 at 2:16pm - Edited - Like - 1
[VA]: Hey Adele are you going to ban yourself for implying that Marxist groups are behaving correctly in being hostile toward people bringing up issues of rape and abuse in their midst? November 6 at 2:15pm - Like - 3
[VA]: Because that’s pretty misogynistic tbh! November 6 at 2:15pm - Like
[Tampa SDS Member]: “It isn’t necessary for the victim or advocate to have further roles, and the perpetrator is expelled; I will consider the matter dealt with.” Well, I disagree. I mean, if people know he’s an abuser and were not consistently advocating his removal and trying to shut up people who were trying to ask about it, then they shouldn’t be allowed in the group either. November 6 at 2:17pm - Like - 4
Tampa Activist: Reluctant based on what? Everyone involved tried a modest and diplomatic approach, with zero results. FRSO is reluctant because they want to absolve themselves without having to kick out their beloved comrade rapist. The only way these women will get any results is if they make it a more prominent issue. No one wants that, it’s embarrassing for all Marxist Leninists to think that an organization is doing this, but it looks like that’s the direction this is going in. November 6 at 7:21pm - Edited - Like - 6
[VA]: No see apparently the correct answer was to be absolutely fine with being systematically ignored by FRSO regarding this issue. November 6 at 2:19pm - Like - 1
Tampa Activist: The woman in question also straight up lied about the rapist’s continued involvement in FRSO. November 6 at 7:21pm - Edited - Like - 2
[VA]: But hey I’m pretty sure the article I posted in the OP identified painting the organization as the victim in this type of situation as a tactic of people participating in a cover-up so… November 6 at 2:20pm - Like - 2
Tampa Activist: These women have no ideological differences with FRSO, in fact one was going through the candidacy process of FRSO, they have no motivation to disrupt FRSO or their work outside of the fact that FRSO is systemically defending rapists within their organization. November 6 at 2:23pm - Edited - Like - 2
[Facebook User D]: Why FRSO doesn’t just kick the guy out is what confuses me…it seems like they’d rather cover for rapists than lose an organizing asset. November 6 at 2:23pm - Like - 7
[Facebook User D]: In this sense their behavior reminds me of the police or a gang, covering for each other instead of dealing with this kinda shit. November 6 at 2:24pm - Like
[VA]: Well the thing about it is that other members of FRSO were complicit in keeping him in in the first place. So this goes beyond one dude. November 6 at 2:25pm - Like - 3
Tampa Activist: [Facebook User D], that’s what I’ve been thinking for the months (yes these women have given FRSO MONTHS to deal with this locally) that this has been an issue. Any organization is better off removing a rapist, there is no person, even if they’re the hardest working and most ideologically sound person in the world, worth protecting under these conditions. November 6 at 2:27pm - Like - 2
[VA]: By the way FRSO members were given plenty of chances to address these concerns or explain to me why they shouldn’t be brought up and they took none of them, for the most part, and instead just ignored, unfriended, and blocked. November 6 at 2:29pm - Like - 3
Tampa Activist: Local FRSO has even went so far as to begin rumors in activist circles about the people involved and concerned, to deflect any future concerns. November 6 at 2:30pm - Like - 1
Adele Cain: I suggest as a fellow outsider that they put their suspicions to the test and actually find a way to get the victim’s account to the party. I know that this is not being ignored because I’ve seen the work Dan has put in. November 6 at 2:33pm - Edited - Like
[Facebook User A]: I thought this happened last week. If this is a months-long issue then clearly that speaks volumes about FRSO’s commitment & lack thereof. November 6 at 2:33pm - Like - 4
[Facebook User A]: Adele that’s a little difficult with regards to the whole blocking the advocate. November 6 at 2:34pm - Like - 4
Adele Cain: I’m not going to defend FRSO but I will defend Dan because I have seen with my own eyes how much he cares about this case and how much work he’s put in. As a woman I want to see a Communist party dealing decisively with a sexual assault complaint. So far they have acted better than I’ve seen parties act in the UK. This is my opinion as someone with no allegiance to an American Communist party. November 6 at 2:37pm - Like - 2
Adele Cain: [VA] did not act as an advocate, she acted like a spambot. The concept of an advocate I support in principle but [VA] needs to accept that her voice was heard long before she started shouting. November 6 at 2:42pm - Like - 1
[VA]: And FRSO needs to accept that if it’s going to conduct an investigation it should probably tell the folks making complaints directly not just hope that they get the message through the grapevine. November 6 at 2:44pm - Like - 5
[VA]: But nah clearly my posting about it is just being a “spambot” because the proper way to advocate for something is to be quiet about it and not at all persistent. November 6 at 2:45pm - Like
Facebook User E: Better than I’ve seen parties in the UK?! Well that would hardly be difficult given that the SWP in the UK seem to have turned into little more than a rape cult. November 6 at 2:49pm - Like - 3
[VA]: I hope everyone can see the pattern in Adele’s posts that wholly amounts to “why didn’t [VA] just shut up about this more.” November 6 at 2:50pm - Like - 2
Adele Cain: Err, well I didn’t think I’d talked about that really. My concern is not attacking you, and I’ve defended you for the better part of two weeks in fact. I want this investigation to be completed. November 6 at 2:54pm - Like
Tampa Activist: Her voice was heard? Then why is FRSO trying to push her out of activist circles, by literally banning her and everyone involved from every group, preventing her from receiving updates from an organization that she’s been involved in for a while? Why is Daniel refocusing the issue from rape to privilege? These women need his cooperation, not deflection. I still want to believe that Daniel is genuinely concerned, maybe having a difficult time processing this, but I don’t think his non-response illustrates that very well. November 6 at 2:54pm - Like - 4
Facebook User E: It doesn’t seem like [VA] is being heard at all, we’ve had one massive derail about what another woman may or may not have said, but the OP seems to have been more or less ignored apart from some placatory crap. November 6 at 2:54pm - Like - 2
Adele Cain: Oh well the OP didn’t seem to be what [VA] and others wanted discussing. I am not avoiding a general debate about how organizations deal with complaints. November 6 at 2:56pm - Like
Adele Cain: Dan wrote a statement to this group to clarify events as he sees them. He has nothing else to add presumably and is also working so I don’t think his not posting on this thread is indicative of anything. November 6 at 3:01pm - Like
[VA]: What’s interesting to me here is that I’m being expected to take FRSO members at their word that an investigation is happening and they’re taking this very seriously and Daniel himself is working tirelessly to get it resolved all while Daniel is not contacting me, not telling me directly this is happening, and content to spread untruths about the situation. But any claim that I’ve made here has been scrutinized to death. But I don’t have any basis for not believing the claims FRSO is making even as they’re removing me from groups, giving me the silent treatment, blocking me, unfriending me in droves, telling others who have spoken out about this to kill themselves, etc.? Someone explain this to me. I need this explained to me. Why is FRSO given the benefit of the doubt in this situation? November 6 at 3:02pm - Like - 6
Adele Cain: Anyway I think we’ve all said our piece and there is nothing else to be achieved here. This thread will be closed but not deleted should anyone want it for reference. If there’s anything I can help with I will do my best so keep in touch [VA]. November 6 at 3:11pm - Like
[VA]: Bullshit. I asked for an explanation. November 6 at 3:12pm - Like - 3
[VA]: And now the thread is closed because you can’t provide one for why I should take you at your word despite all the actual evidence to the contrary that FRSO is not actually interested in resolving this in a manner at all fair to the victim or people advocating on her behalf? November 6 at 3:13pm - Like - 6
Adele Cain: Not expecting you to take anything from my comments. I’m not an FRSO spokesman [VA]. And this isn’t an FRSO group. We are Communists. A Communist party is under scrutiny. We talked about it. We voiced concerns. November 6 at 3:20pm - Like
Adele Cain: — THREAD CLOSED — All further messages will be removed. No repeat threads on this subject please. November 6 at 3:20pm - Like - 1
Steve McClure: These posts seem to be everywhere. Frankly for someone outside the USA, who knows little of the situation, who knows only organizational names, the status and the comments are hard to follow. November 8 at 7:17pm - Like
2 #
Facebook User E: November 7 at 7:57am
I considering whether to stay in this group. I’ve had many good conversations here, and met many good people, but last night’s debacle with [VA] Delilah has left me wondering who exactly runs this group and how genuinely committed they are to the principles that they claim to uphold.
I’ll just leave this here… http://truth-out.org/.../89858-why-misogynists-make-great-inf… Like · Comment · Share
11 people like this.
Tampa Activist: It’s all been pretty hard to swallow. I think the admins until now have been consistent, vigilant, and fair, but they have chosen to be selective when it involves their personal relationships and organizations. This entire thing is heartbreaking and disturbing for us. We have no tolerance for rape culture and rapists in activist circles. We stand be in Tampa Florida or New York City. I have personally been absolutely quiet and patient with FRSO to be fair I’m not FRSO and never have been (though I have attended some SDS meeting as a guest), with hope that they would take care of their problems internally, but they have failed to do so. I know this is stressful stuff, and it sucks feeling responsible for someone else’s actions, but it is the responsibility of an organization at this level as much as I’d protect women in their organization and protect women who come in contact with their organization. I only hope Daniel opens his discourse and can help us reach an acceptable conclusion. November 7 at 10:50am · Edited · Like
[Facebook User F]: What happened? November 7 at 10:51am · Like
Tampa Activist: The admins decided to keep the thread up. You can it in this group. November 7 at 10:52am · Like
[Facebook User F]: Alright, yeah, I found it. Reading through it now. November 7 at 10:53am · Like
Tampa Activist: Even more concerning to me are the people who are opting out of discussing the issue, or choosing the wrong side. I can at least understand (not sympathize with) admin behavior. November 7 at 11:13am · Like
Facebook User C: I understand the whole thing as two separate but related issues. A rapist is/was being protected from accountability by FRSO, and a discussion about it on the Communism 101 group was, by most accounts, prematurely and unnecessarily ended with a threat closure and some bans.
I’d personally like to see a debrief – unobstructed by the admins – about how the discussion was handled by the Communism 101 group. I’d also think it should have been handled, and how the group rules (whatever they are) relate to both. November 7 at 11:15am · Like · 3
[Facebook User F]: Man, that was pretty bad. November 7 at 11:19am · Like · 1
Facebook User C: With respect to the Communism 101 discussion in question, I can’t help but be reminded of an incident some weeks ago. Somebody posted an anime meme. One of people here objected to as being objectifying of women. The person who made the post apparently wanted to start a discussion about Communism, but the vast majority of members indicated that from happening until the dude removed the image and self-criticized, which he at first refused to do, but later agreed to.
I really liked how that incident was handled. It was a collective assertion by the vast majority here that we’re not interested in discussions or rhetoric or imagery that marginalizes women and others oppressed by patriarchy, that we won’t tolerate it under any circumstances, and that nothing is more important than making our spaces safe and accessible to all.
The guy wasn’t banned, if I remember correctly. And he did eventually self-criticize. Now compare the handling of that incident to the handling of this more recent one, wherein a [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre] alleged to be, and was supposedly zero-tolerance policy on misogyny and racism. [VA] was banned apparently for doing exactly what a victims advocate is supposed to do, and the thread was closed despite major unresolved grievances between the people involved in the discussion and the admins.
I’m really not sure what happened between those two incidents, but I hope we’re able to come to a conclusion on that. November 7 at 2:06pm · Edited · Like · 6
[Facebook User O]: Yeah, this is rather disgusting. I’m glad you all are bring attention to this. The admins should put out a statement after actions like that. I agree with Facebook User C, this needs clarification. November 7 at 11:34am · Like · 2
Facebook User I: Action has been taken November 7 at 11:40am · Like
Tampa Activist: Well, they’re going some new rules or a more strict enforcement of existing rules, in response to this issue, which is very disturbing. It’s especially problematic that no more has been done, really here, but on SDS and FRSO ran groups (both online and in person) to PUNISH one of the victims and people who have decided to back her than has been done to the rapist.
I haven’t said anything damn thing about it until yesterday and these people, locally, preemptively banned, block, or unfriend me. November 7 at 11:36am · Like
[Facebook User F]: If her allegations are true then it is a very terrible situation. At least something is getting done about it though. November 7 at 11:36am · Like
Facebook User C: Wow, just noticed that the admins have been replaced.
November 7 at 11:30am · Like · 3
Tampa Activist: I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume multiple women activist, who are close to these people who are doing the wrong thing atm, to collectively decide to lie about this. November 7 at 11:40am · Like · 1
Facebook User E: Behind all this as well, we should remember that there is a victim, who will be aware that this is having ripples all over the place. And that is why women don’t report - to to the police, not to organisations and not to their friends. Because they’ve had enough “drama”.
A rape is a fairly dramatic thing in itself, you want to get over it and heal, but at the same time you are aware of both the need to keep the others and the future you safe from a re-occurrence. This is why women do report.
In this instance there has been tonnes of drama and no action taken to enhance safety. This is a complete failure of the organisation. November 7 at 11:46am · Like · 8
Austin Austin: I noticed Shane Creepingbear was added as admin, this bodes well November 7 at 11:40am · Like · 1
Wesam Cooley: Does that mean the comrades who were banned yesterday are going to be unbanned? November 7 at 12:50pm · Like · 3
Jack Dixon: Wow, some peoples’ heads were sent to the chopping block. There are like 3 people who are in admin positions here on Communism 101. Can anybody enlighten me on who this Dustin Ponder cat is? I’m having a hard time finding anything about via Google search. November 7 at 12:50pm · Like
Tampa Activist: We’re expecting retaliation, locally, rumors, a continued effort to push them out of activist spaces. Being banned from this group (hopefully that’ll fix the least of their concerns. November 7 at 12:35pm · Like
[Facebook User G]: Dustin Ponder is someone connected to FRSO who has a complaint against him from a woman comrade, but the details are contested or obscure beyond that at the moment. We encourage FRSO and the woman in question, as well as any advocates she might name to speak for her if need be together to resolve this situation in a way that satisfies her needs and protects other women in the movement. November 7 at 12:39pm · Like · 1
[Facebook User F]: Whoa, why were so many admins taken out? November 7 at 12:41pm · Like
[Facebook User H]: ^ maybe because they were protecting a rapist and actively silencing people who’ve been speaking out about it…? November 7 at 1:09pm · Like · 1
[Facebook User F]: ^ So it wasn’t just one or two admins, but a good chunk of them? November 7 at 1:10pm · Like
[Facebook User H]: as far as I know the admins that were removed were Daniel, Adele and [Facebook User P]. I’ve got [Facebook User P] blocked so I couldn’t tell you if they’ve been doing what Daniel and Adele have. November 7 at 1:13pm · Like · 1
Tampa Activist: I think they consciously decided to step away from admin until this gets resolved. November 7 at 1:14pm · Like
November 7 at 1:16pm · Like · 2
Facebook User I: That’s not what happened, please don’t make up narratives November 7 at 1:16pm · Like · 3
[Facebook User H]: ^ no to what? November 7 at 1:15pm · Like
Tampa Activist: Unfortunately they didn’t provide anyone with their narrative. November 7 at 1:16pm · Like
Facebook User I: Tampa Activist’s explanation November 7 at 1:16pm · Like
Tampa Activist: “I think”
But I’m sorry if this is not the case. November 7 at 1:17pm · Like
[Facebook User F]: I wonder how much longer it will take before everything is resolved. November 7 at 1:17pm · Like
[Facebook User H]: ok, that’s good, then. November 7 at 1:17pm · Like
Facebook User I: nor is one necessary here, the discussion is not helpful to this group and the association of the group with them as administration needed to be ended November 7 at 1:17pm · Like · 2
Tampa Activist: Fine. I’ll lay off it. Sorry.
Relocation to a place to create a new branch where he will be in charge of the local organization. Promotion. The closest thing to a reward for some horrible, horrible acts. November 7 at 1:18pm · Like
[Facebook User F]: It was a good step to take. November 7 at 1:19pm · Like
[Facebook User H]: to say the least… November 7 at 1:19pm · Like · 1
[Facebook User G]: I trust the group is taking this issue seriously. The closest thing to a reward for some horrible, horrible acts. November 7 at 1:21pm · Like · 4
[VA]: I want to correct some of what John said regarding the abuser in FRSO. I don’t know exactly where he got his information, but I am almost 100% certain this is not simply “connected” to FRSO, he’s not is in fact still a member. Additionally, he has assaulted/abused multiple women, one of whom identifies as a rapist, and another of whom identifies the situation which he did not follow. However, he was kept in the organization despite all of this. November 7 at 7:36pm · Like · 3
Jack Dixon: Woah, shit, for real [VA]? Seriously, fuck that guy. That definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth. You’d figure that socialist organizations would crackdown on that kind of nonsense. November 7 at 7:42pm · Like · 2
[Facebook User G]: That’s all fair, [VA]. I’m only aware of some of the details of this case as they’ve been posted on these threads. You mentioned you were acting as the survivors advocate. It might be useful to start a thread about how you see that role in socialist organisations working to educate others about it. November 7 at 7:49pm · Like
[VA]: Ok, except I’m much more interested in discussing this case specifically, since I still have yet to hear from any FRSO members regarding resolving the matter. November 7 at 7:46pm · Like · 3
[Facebook User F]: This definitely needs to be handled better from what I’m seeing about it. Horrible. November 7 at 7:48pm · Like
[Facebook User G]: This might be a good place to discuss what your ideal resolution of this situation would be. That way, FRSO can respond to that if they’re going to respond. November 7 at 7:51pm · Like · 1
[VA]: Getting in touch with the victim advocate would be a very good place to start. Also I think it would be absolutely necessary for FRSO members to stop systematically silencing/ignoring/blocking/threatening everyone involved in bringing up these claims. I mean I think that my ideal resolution would go something deeper by the previous group of admins was really just the icing on the cake. I know I’ve mentioned that I was also removed from groups related to activist spaces that were occupied and/or run within for years as well. I hope with all that in mind you can understand why I feel my concern is justified. November 7 at 8:23pm · Like · 8
[VA]: By the way, I want to make it clear, that the tactics I outlined above have been leveled against everyone speaking out about this issue. Not just me. November 7 at 8:26pm · Like · 3
[Facebook User G]: That’s reasonable enough. We would appreciate it if every topic wasn’t dominated by this, but we do appreciate it’s a serious charge. I would repeat to any FRSO members reading this that they should reach out to [VA] and expedite resolving this. November 7 at 8:26pm · Like · 4
[Facebook User L]: I’ve missed a lot in my time gone November 7 at 10:02pm · Like
Facebook User C: I heard you went Nazi. November 9 at 6:45am · Like · 4
[VA]: Hey I got some outreach by a FRSO member today and by outreach I mean he told me I didn’t know what I was talking about, refused to divulge details as to why that was, said that the accusations against his organization were “bullshit”, accused me of trying to take over my local SDS chapter (which according to him is the only reason I brought these accusations forward), and then tried to derail the conversation by calling me racist and ultimately blocked me, as all thought it was impressive. I have screenshots of the conversation if anyone is interested in seeing how FRSO handles accusations of rape and abuse under the guise of “investigation”. I mean wow I still haven’t been contacted by a FRSO member regarding my role as the victim’s advocate. November 9 at 10:20am · Like · 8
[Facebook User K]: Facebook User C yeah, I heard that too. What’s going on?
And [VA], are you offering to show these screenshots to anybody here? November 9 at 11:35am · Like · 1
[VA]: Yeah, I would do that unless there’s some kind of rule against it. November 9 at 11:40am · Like
[Facebook User G]: There’s no rule against it. November 9 at 11:45am · Edited · Like
[VA]: Ok, some of someone else posted a status about FRSO being bullshit after seeing my comments on this group. Gregory Lucero stepped in to say that this person didn’t know what they were talking about, and when the person said otherwise this is what Greg had to say. I blocked out the pictures and names of the other folks because I’m not sure they want their information out there, just for clarity’s sake:
[Screenshot of Gregory Lucero’s Facebook post and conversation included]
November 9 at 11:50am · Like · 1
[VA]: Then when I said I have been waiting for months for FRSO members to explain to me why I shouldn’t speak out about this, this is what happened with the rest of the conversation:
[Additional screenshots of conversation]
November 9 at 11:51am · Like · 1
[VA]: Greg blocked me after indicating that I am racist (with no evidence of racism in my posts in this thread, and if he had that problem with me he should’ve actually bring it up separately from this conversation about how his organization is failing a survivor of misogynistic abuse) rather than attempting to answer my questions. November 9 at 11:52am · Like · 1
[Facebook User K]: That 80 years ago comment is disgusting. November 9 at 11:58am · Like · 5
Facebook User C: I’m not familiar with the FRSO party structure, but I’m pretty amazed (perhaps naively so) that the party leadership hasn’t publicly addressed this. That turn itself looks like gaslighting to me. November 9 at 12:05pm · Like · 4
Tampa Activist: “Hypothetically if you were a white woman in 1934, you’d be a racist.”
said to avoid acknowledging that in 2014 there’s a rapist in his organization and continues to protect him November 9 at 12:13pm · Like · 6
[Facebook User K]: Suggesting also that framing a POC for rape to have them killed is an actively reasonable specific to a certain type of feminist
I can’t even cover the myriad ways in which that comment is appalling. Every time I read it again I notice something else.
(I don’t mean to distract from the wider issue.) November 9 at 12:41pm · Edited · Like · 7
[Facebook User J]: regardless of the party, national leadership never ever publicly addresses anything if they can get away with it, and this has basically been simmering for a while. No one knows about it (including honestly no one except maybe megan knows anything about it either, we’ve just heard that there may be a thing November 9 at 12:43pm · Edited · Like
Tampa Activist: It’s not distracting at all, at this point FRSO has made it part of the discussion. This is their ever-changing narrative. In order to distract from the issue they are calling us racist (particularly against Latinos, which is hilarious because I’m Latino, hold Puerto Rico nationalist sentiments against Latinos). It should be discussed, because it will only prove FRSO folk to be dishonest and willing to say ANYTHING to avoid dealing with their culture of patriarchal behavior and rape apology.
I’m not here to make FRSO look bad. I want FRSO to correct their mistakes and attitude, so it continue doing work in Tampa and with a safe place for women nationally. Up until this point I have had nothing but love for the org, as did [VA] and another who was a candidate member up until this became the issue. November 9 at 12:47pm · Like · 3
[VA]: I forgot to point out that according to someone who knows the identity of the rapist in FRSO and that has not been blocked by Greg, Greg is still friends on Facebook with the rapist in FRSO. It doesn’t seem he knows that this person has been identified as the rapist in FRSO since he seems to think he knows about what went on with this but “not out of town”, but not out of Greg’s list of facebook friends. November 9 at 12:48pm · Edited · Like · 5
Tampa Activist: Run out of town?
Relocation to a place to create a new branch where he will be in charge of the local organization. Promotion. The closest thing to a reward for some horrible, horrible acts. November 9 at 12:50pm · Like · 3
[Tampa SDS Member]: I know for the fact that the abuser is also still friends with multiple local FRSO members on Facebook. So much for “run out of town.” November 9 at 1:00pm · Like · 4
[Facebook User K]: Can I ask why this guy is not named? Is it to protect those he abused? November 9 at 1:39pm · Like
[VA]: He was named in this group at one point, but I have been asked not to name him because the victim of his that I am in contact with is afraid of retaliation both through litigation as well as physical retaliation. November 9 at 1:40pm · Like · 4
[Facebook User G]: Libel / slander charges or the threat of them are often used to quash rape allegations, and is a good example of how bourgeois legal theory and practice ultimately serve to reproduce the power of white supremacist heteropatriarchal capitalism. November 9 at 1:43pm · Like · 8
Facebook User M: is the entire Tampa frso branch suspect at this point, are there any Tampa cadre that have taken up the victims’ cause? November 9 at 2:42pm · Like
[VA]: The best answer I can come up with to that last question, Q, is unfortunately no. November 9 at 2:43pm · Like · 1
Facebook User M: Then it seems like frso would be alienating the whole branch if they act on this. Can we realistically expect them to take that risk? November 9 at 2:47pm · Like
Facebook User C: They’ll alienate a whole more people if they don’t. November 9 at 2:48pm · Like · 5
[Facebook User L]: “All sex is rape” I’d love to know what factors led to that mentality and asses the psychology of people who think this way. November 9 at 3:11pm · Like
Tampa Activist: To be clear, we didn’t take this up intending to ruin FRSO’s name. We were hoping that this cooperation at the National level, as we were advised to do by other FRSO members outside of the Tampa branch. If anyone is having a negative impact on the organization it’s FRSO. November 9 at 3:15pm · Like · 2
Facebook User M: Andy kessler do you still think Germany is an oppressed nation? November 9 at 3:25pm · Like · 6
[Facebook User L]: Nations aren’t living entities and cannot be oppressed, living things can be oppressed. November 9 at 3:29pm · Like
Erika Miozzi: ugh. November 9 at 3:30pm · Like · 7
Zach Jerome: not all sex is rape - but nations can be oppressed lol November 9 at 3:32pm · Edited · Like
[Facebook User L]: I feel like if you have a question for me you could easily message me instead of asking it in a place that it’s completely irrelevant November 9 at 3:45pm · Like
Facebook User M: Well it isn’t irrelevant though because having German nationalists in a space for communists discuss might be a breach of security, no? November 9 at 3:48pm · Like · 2
Facebook User M: Like since you’ve left we’ve literally had discussions about you becoming a nazi tbh so you might want to make a post or something explain yourself if you want all of us to accept you again out of the blue. But that’s just my opinion November 9 at 3:54pm · Like
[Facebook User L]: I made a post explaining it like 3 weeks ago November 9 at 3:56pm · Like
[Facebook User L]: I’ve been back for awhile if you didn’t notice November 9 at 3:56pm · Like
[Facebook User L]: Thanks [Facebook User Q] I don’t know where it is though November 9 at 3:57pm · Like
November 9 at 2:49pm · Like
[VA]: I’m not sure I understand your last question, Q. Risk alienating the whole branch, because they all participated in covering for a rapist? I would hope we could realistically and reasonably expect them to take that risk. But I’m convinced the problem is systemic within FRSO. Greg certainly isn’t based in Tampa and he’s shutting down conversation about the problem, and the abuser is currently now in NYC. November 9 at 2:49pm · Like · 3
[Facebook User L]: How does an organization have such poor leadership? November 9 at 2:50pm · Like · 2
[VA]: Also, it isn’t just the Tampa branch that would be a problem. It was apparently the national organizer’s decision to take the abuser to NYC in the first place, and if I’m not mistaken he’s based in Gainesville. November 9 at 2:50pm · Like · 3
Facebook User M: I agree. I guess what I meant was that they may feel like they’d be jeopardizing their base in Tampa and if Greg’s positions is the norm, possibly across the country. A kind of “don’t rock the boat” mentality. November 9 at 2:54pm · Like
[Facebook User N]: All sex is rape under patriarchy. The majority of FRSO, indeed, most of cis male amerikan ML current suicide. Discuss. November 9 at 2:56pm · Like
November 9 at 2:57pm · Like
[VA]: I definitely agree with that assessment, Q. I think they’re afraid that if this gets out their position will be totally jeopardized, mostly because I think most of them recognize that it rightfully should be. There’s the isolation and intimidation tactics employed by people against me and other members of the victim’s support team. November 9 at 3:01pm · Like · 2
[VA]: I also think this is why they’ve made the claim against me that I’m trying to “take over SDS as if its their “turf” and I’m making shit up out of a personal vendetta. Especially since now, if I warn young women and others in my local SDS about FRSO’s decision. And they solve SDS or otherwise try to hold FRSO accountable also, their claims will have proven to be true. It’s a trap, and it’s one that’s putting local activists in my community at potential risk, which is particularly heinous. November 9 at 3:03pm · Like · 2
Gregory Lucero’s Comments #
Gregory Lucero: Yeah, that’s all fucking bullshit and the people are trying to take over a local group and using an incident from over a year ago to try and do it. Why didn’t they bring it up when then it was a year ago, they were looking ha-died then and the people were run out of town.
It’s a political power play. That’s it and nothing more. 21 mins · Edited · Like
[Redacted]: Yeah except the rapist started a new FRSO branch. 28 mins · Like
[Redacted]: It blows my mind how an organization can NOT have a zero-tolerance policy for patriarchal violence. Like, would you let in scabs too? 28 mins · Like · 1
Gregory Lucero: Yeah, you don’t know what what the fuck you’re talking about and I’m not going to indulge this conversation any more. 27 mins · Like
[Redacted]: Communists shouldn’t have some kind of bourgeois statute of limitations on rape. And rapists should never be allowed back in. 27 mins · Like · 2
[Redacted]: Yo I won’t sweat it 26 mins · Like · 1
[VA]: Ah yes the rapist was “run out of town” to start a new FRSO unit in a different city ok greg sure 20 mins · Like · 1
Gregory Lucero: You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and I’m not going to pretend like you do. 20 mins · Like
Gregory Lucero: You have an axe to grind [Former Tampa FRSO Cadre] because he left and you because you want to take over the SDS group. 20 mins · Like
[VA]: You unfriended me rather than explain, didn’t you Greg? 19 mins · Like
[VA]: I want to take over the SDS group OH MY GOD you are fucking delusional 19 mins · Like
Gregory Lucero: Yeah, because you’re being shitty about it. In fact, I shouldn’t be feeding into your trolling. 19 mins · Like
[VA]: Ah, see, if I’m shitty about the potential for a rapist to be in a group FRSO members don’t have to take the accusation seriously. 19 mins · Like · 1
[VA]: I hope everyone is getting this. 19 mins · Like · 1
[VA]: Greg who makes posts about “dat women’s oppression tho” doesn’t actually give a shit about dealing with the tone of the person bringing something up that happened in an organization he’s in,, Fuck you, Greg. You’re a fucking joke. 18 mins · Edited · Like · 1
[VA]: Greg are you denying that the rapist in FRSO is still in FRSO? 17 mins · Like · 1
Gregory Lucero: Yeah, well 80 years ago you’re the kind of “feminist” who would say a black man looked at her just so she could see him lynched. 17 mins · Like
[VA]: Are you denying that he is a rapist? What is your actual stance other than “You don’t know what you’re talking about but I won’t fill anyone in with counter-information”? 17 mins · Like · 1